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Welcome back to the Trentonian's Full-Court Press blog. Yes, we're still alive, and with the 2015-16 season rapidly approaching, it's time to fire up the old blog for another season. Check back here throughout the year for updates on all things Rider and Princeton, including coverage of both the MAAC and Ivy League. Feel free to drop me a line on twitter @kj_franko (https://twitter.com/kj_franko) or email kfranko@trentonian.com.

Friday, February 20, 2009

Why all the venom?

(These guys had much greater differences than Siena and Rider fans, and they tried to make it work.)

I can’t help but be amused – and mostly impressed – with the dialogue that’s taking place in the comments section between Rider and Siena fans.

For the most part, there’s been a healthy back and forth with valid viewpoints on both sides.

Here’s my basic evaluation of where Rider stands as a program in relation to Siena: As I wrote in my last post, Rider is a legitimate threat that should be taken seriously. If nothing more, there’s a realistic chance if the teams met in the MAAC title game, Rider could win.

The Broncs have also won 38 games over the past two seasons and will reach at least 40 barring a complete meltdown. I understand they’ve done so against an embarrassingly weak non-conference schedule, but there are dozens upon dozens of teams that play weak schedules and don’t win close to that many games.

What I don’t quite get is the venom coming from a small group of Siena fans (which I’m guessing doesn’t represent the fan base as a whole) toward Rider.

Earlier this year, during one of my Q & A exchanges with Pete Iorizzo of the Albany Times Union, I pointed out that it was clear to me some Siena fans aren’t too fond of Rider.

I got a comment from a Siena fan who said Saints fans don’t view Rider any differently than they do Saint Peter’s: as just another low-tier MAAC program unworthy of Siena’s respect.

I understand the lack of respect, and in a way, it’s justified. It’s true that Siena has been the most successful MAAC program since it joined the league and that Rider has accomplished relatively little over the past decade.

But it’s simply not true that these Siena fans – who, again, as far as I can tell aren’t representative of the fan base as a whole – care as little about Rider as they do about Saint Peter’s and Loyola.

If that was the case, they’d be writing venomous messages about John Dunne, obsessing over Saint Peters’ attendance figures, and foaming at the mouth over Dunne’s post-game comments.

(A quick note on the attendance figures and Tommy Dempsey’s record, since I know that’s a gripe some folks have: Regarding the attendance figures, I am certain Rider isn’t the only MAAC team that inflates attendance numbers for some games. If you’re going to fault them for what they’ve done, fault them for making it so obvious that they’re doing it. Also, know that the coaching staff has virtually nothing to do with that practice. … The record distortion is stupid, and Dempsey’s record as an interim coach should count. There’s absolutely no question about it. … To me, though, that doesn’t warrant that kind of venom. It’s simply not close to being on the same level as abusing players or committing NCAA violations. If you have that attitude toward Dempsey, what do you have to say about someone like Kelvin Sampson?)

So I need help from some Saints fans.

To those who appear hung up on Rider’s shortcomings, why do you care? If Rider is such a low-grade program unworthy of your respect, why let Dempsey’s comments bother you? UConn and Pitt fans don’t think Rutgers has a legitimate men’s basketball program, so there’s no way any of them are going to be bothered by anything that Fred Hill says.

To other Siena fans out there, what does the rest of the fan base think?

My impression from talking to Siena fans and members of the Albany media is that most of the fans are too focused on their team becoming one of the best mid-major programs in the country – for which they should be extremely proud – to care much what Dempsey says or does.

24 Comments:

Anonymous Anonymous said...

MAAC RECORDS SINCE RIDER/AMRIST JOINED THE LEAGUE (includes 08-09)

NIA 139-75
SIE 134-80
MAN 119-95
ION 119-95
RID 117-97
FAI 114-100
MAR 110-104
CAN 78-136
LOY 70-144
SPC 70-144

Over the course of almost 12 seasons I think it's safe to say Rider is right there with the rest of the top tier of the league, and to include them in the same breathe as Loyola and St. Peter's is just a bit extreme.

February 20, 2009 at 4:01 PM 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

There are a few Siena posters that dislike Rider and you should not include them to judge the Siena fan base, just as there is one loud mouth Rider poster that should not be used to judge Rider fans.

February 20, 2009 at 5:47 PM 
Blogger Yonkers said...

I lived in Albany for a year, unfortunately, it's a s'hithole. Maybe that's why Siena fans are so angry?

February 20, 2009 at 9:24 PM 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

"We're sick of hearing about Siena." - Ryan Thompson, 2008-2009 Preseason.

Well, Ryan.....when a program is successful, they get attention. Not our fault you had too little self-esteem to establish your own legacy at a different school than your brother. Also, not our fault your stuck playing in that junior high gym in Lawrenceville.

February 20, 2009 at 10:41 PM 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Rider is 10-20 against Siena - not sure of the fuss.

February 20, 2009 at 10:42 PM 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Siena fans are not pleased with their team unless they can tell the rest of the MAAC that Siena is better then their team

February 21, 2009 at 12:46 AM 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Siena is the best program in the MAAC. They get too much national exposure and they win. Tough to argue other wise.

February 22, 2009 at 12:52 AM 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

As a Siena fan I laugh at the few Siena fans obsessed with Rider. Dempsey has done of good job of making Rider competitive in the MAAC and that’s good for Siena. I think a lot of the venom from Siena fans is the direct result of the efforts of one particular Rider fan who shall remain nameless but goes by the initials RR

February 22, 2009 at 11:44 AM 
Blogger anonymous4 said...

Ben

What other school has the combination of a terrible gym, a coach who lies about his record, the worst non-conference schedule every year and then runs around proclaiming itself a premiere program.

And on the attendance, it's not that they fudge -- everyone does -- it's the fact that the admins use the date to derrive what is reported.

What other MAAC school does all that.

Rider continues to be a joke

February 22, 2009 at 12:24 PM 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

i think the "venom" comes from the fact that there are a couple (and really one in particular) fan of Rider that inflate the achievements of Rider to an absurd amount and denegrate the accomplishments of other teams (in particular that poster takes it to Siena) to an absurdity.

I think Rider was really tough with jason thompson and aside from his 4 years the Rider team is generally one of those annoying teams that can beat you if you dont bring your A game. I see Rider as a consistent "spoiler" rather than true contender.

The gym they play in, the attendance and of course some dont like the hiding of the interim coaching record of dempsey... are all factors that play in the "dislike" of Rider.

Rider is what it is.. the top of the middle tier of the MAAC. A team not to be taken lightly but I dont see anyone being able to argue in favor of Rider being a top tier team until they actually represent the conference in the NCAA tournament at least once. until the the top tier is what it is... Niagara, Siena, Manhattan, Iona

February 22, 2009 at 2:07 PM 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Most of the comments hit the nail on the head. Most Siena fans don't dislike Rider or are merely indifferent at worst. There are a few who react negatively toward Rider in response to the inane posts of a single Rider supporter who trolls the MAAC basketball message boards knowingly misrepresenting Rider's status and denegrateing other MAAC program just to incite acrimonious "debate".
The target of this misguided individual is usually the front MAAC runner. Currently the target is Siena, in year's past it was Iona, et.al.. In any case, do not confuse the statements of a few equally misguided "fans", who cannot seem to help but react viserally to the "baiting" posts of a single Rider supporter, with the opinions of the rest of the MAAC fanbase.

February 22, 2009 at 3:16 PM 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I am not a Siena fan. I never understood why the MAAC took Rider. From a hoop standpoint they bring nothing to the table and they seem like a better fit in the NEC.

February 22, 2009 at 7:41 PM 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I was at the Sovereign Bank Arena 2 years ago when Niagara beat Siena for the MAAC title. The ceremonies crowning the tournament champ were witnessed by Siena players and coaches. They may have disliked being runners-up, but they paid respects and clapped for the team that bettered them.

On to last year when Siena bested Rider in the tourney championship. Dempsey had his team attend the crowning on the court as well. The difference was that Dempsey stood through the entire ceremony with his pouty puss and his arms crossed. Great sportsmanship. I will continue to take great pleasure with every Siena beat down of Rider while Dempsey is coaching the Broncos.

February 23, 2009 at 6:46 AM 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

This is normal rivalry behavior and it is good for the conference. What is being displayed is a general sense of fear and jealousy, after all, Rider is the only team in the MAAC to beat Sienna the past 2 years and if it wasn't for Rider's depleted squad in the finals last year, the Broncs would have been dancing. In addition, Rider's recruiting has everyone on edge; JT goes in the lottery; Dempsey's signing of Gadson and Jackson, etc., has people nervous. This year's Rider squad essentially starts two frosh and two sophs and is challenging for a title. Think about that. Lastly, Sienna has no other athletic program to rally around, it is a liberal arts school in a poor area not able to field nationally prominent programs. Academically, Rider is the best B-School in the MAAC and highly regarded; it has two campuses, one in Princeton with another prestigious academic college, and its main campus is almost 2X the size of Sienna's. So it's all about the bragging rights of men's hoops. Bring it on.

February 23, 2009 at 7:55 AM 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Niagara never won the MAAC tourney at SBA, get your facts straight.

February 23, 2009 at 8:18 AM 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Facts are straight. Niagara won the MAAC title in 2007 season at SBA. Siena beat Rider in 2008 at Times Union Center

February 24, 2009 at 7:06 AM 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

No they are not straight. The only MAAC tourney hosted by the SBA was in 2003 when Manhattan beat Fairfield for the title.

February 24, 2009 at 9:03 AM 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Niagara beat Siena in 2007 at The Arena at Harbor Yard.

February 24, 2009 at 9:05 AM 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

When will Tommy Dempsey correct his record as a head coach?

February 24, 2009 at 1:28 PM 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Here you go

63-57 (.525) through UMBC Game in 08-09 Season.

February 24, 2009 at 2:35 PM 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

There you go. Thanks .500 Tommy.

February 24, 2009 at 8:32 PM 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I don't disrepect anything about Rider.Just get a bit defensive when that one Rider poster spouts off. This is just a game that we all watch and comment about. No venom here. Rider is usually always in the top half of the league. And you have given us our only loss this year. So you betcha that I'm not looking forward to facing you guys again if we can avoid ya. But to be fair we'll take our chances with you rather than Niagara come March 9. Good luck in your next few games.

February 24, 2009 at 11:44 PM 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Has Dempsey corrected his win-loss record yet?

Another prime example of Rider acting like the small-time program they are - they have to scrape out a win at LOYOLA (a PiG team) and they're running around the court popping their shirts at the end of the game. Guys - you play for Rider, a small-time school that should be playing in the CIAA.

February 26, 2009 at 9:16 PM 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I too lived in Albany for over a year and attended a decent amount of Men's basketball games. What I got out of it was that most Siena fans are a bunch of obnixious fans with no class. What do you expect when the only thing they have in Albany, NY is a mid-major basketball team? I'll cheer for whoever is playing against Siena.

March 1, 2009 at 9:31 PM 

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